I WILL CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT.........

[PatrickMcIrish]

Guys let me be honest, it's almost funny how people come at you in this business. Some pretend to be your friend then when they think the majority feels one way they switch up on you without a word. I don't want to get in a pissing match but I am taking a lot of heat from a small band of people about two decisions I made. Looking back at them I could almost understand why a 3rd party might think something funny is going on but I stand behind both calls. As someone told me I think you are right but the timing could look funny to people. So for that reason I will touch lightly on these two issues one more time.


#1 - BoDog. The vocal minority feel I "sold out" because I didn't rule in their favor on this one. Here's the deal. If I never post as an employee of either site or if one day I am just a poster again nothing will change on this! This was an easy call! I was vocal at one time about not getting answers on this situation and the way it was handled. I never convicted BoDog of anything, in fact the reason I was upset was because we couldn't get to the facts surrounding the case. When I took this job one of the first things I wanted to do was dig into this. Sure the easy thing would have been to bury it but I really wanted to know what happened. In the time I looked into this it became OVERWHELMINGLY clear they followed and abided every single rule in how they handled this matter. I referred to it as a clear slam dunk and that is exactly what it was. Everything they told me I took notes on and then went to 3rd parties confirming everything I could. Wasn't a rash decision I took my time and took detailed notes on everything I found. Besides the clear evidence in this the player was a scammer who got caught being cute amongst other things. This thing was so far overloaded on BoDog I can't even believe anyone who has taken a look at it would have the balls to question it. Bottom line is this is the issue I was in on and that was my finding. Whether others have on going troubles or private matters was not my concern here. Can't speak for anything else nor will I. Ken on his own apologized to the forum about how this was handled on our end. The RX wasn't proud of this one but in no way would I drag BoDog down just to appease others or to substantiate what I had said before. The facts spoke for themselves.


#2 - CRIS. The more people yell the more they don't see what is right in front of them. The truth is again I have been heavily in favor of the player here. Before I even knew who it was I spoke out often on he was getting a raw deal out of it. The fact on all this is CRIS is not having financial trouble though. I can see perfectly clear why someone doesn't want to play there over the loyalty points but no way I am going to say this place is on it's last legs. Someone asked and I said they are a solid out financially. Again I wish the player would have been taken care of and I am on his side but I still have my opinion on which books are solid. CRIS is a solid book. Just about everyone I know in offshore admits this. However because I say it I have "sold out" now. Trust me the whole thing is ridiculous. I tried to call Micky myself and get this guy paid. Bottom line is why would I have an agenda, CRIS doesn't even advertise here? The whole thing was foolish if you ask me. Some will always remember and not play there and that is their right. No way would I try and talk them into playing there but I am not going to lie about the rest of CRIS because I am upset over the loyalty points issue. In this job you answer what they ask you the best way you know how and move on to the next issue.


In closing I would like to hear comments on these things if you want to be heard. If we can stay away from the bashing I want to hear what you have to say. If someone tells me I am bought and paid for I'm not the type to go against what I find just to keep from being labeled. I am a little long in to the tooth for that stuff. If you say it enough and others believe it that might work but you will never intimidate me into lying or saying things I don't believe are true. I've been told long before I worked here by plenty if you want to remain "a highly respected poster" than you need to do this or that. I never cared about it, posted about what I saw at the time. Whether some want me to post their way now in order to be "a highly respected moderator" is not my concern either. I'm not that hung up on it to be honest. People can judge for themselves if they think I speak honestly or I am lying about issues. Also from day one here Ken has not once asked me to post anything or tried to keep me from posting anything I wanted. Everything I have said I stand behind 100%.

For the record I am not insinuating anyone in particular here, several people said they felt this way. Life's too short to spend time hating others on the computer for doing something they enjoy. I am more than willing to discuss anything with anyone. Give me a call. I don't have all the answers, don't pretend to have them. However if I am here 10 days or 10 years I won't fall into trying to please people who want me to rule in their favor to avoid criticism. Though you get some support and it is much appreciated I find there is no way in the world I can post what I really believe to be true and not offend some people. There will always be folks with agendas on both sides of every issue. Instead of trying to keep up with it all I will simply post on what I believe to be true. If I hurt your feelings it is not intentional.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Halifax]

You asked, I'll answer.

As you know, I write this review as someone who posts both here and at MW. One would be hard-pressed to find anyone from either site that would say I favour one over the other, so that oft-overused word "agenda" does not come into play here.

One other thing: my primary purpose of monitoring these forums is to gain information on a wide selection of sportsbooks, both the good ones and the not-so-good ones. Keep this in mind when reading my reply.
--------------------------

My critique of your first 2 or 3 weeks:

My primary complaint would be that you have not really done much since you started. You seem to be off to a slow start. I see you are still active in the handicapping, involved in setting up the poker game, going at it in the head-to-head baseball matchup with the Shrink ... but as far as much "substantial" info along the lines of what I'm looking for (sportsbook info), you haven't added a lot up to this point in time. I thought this was your "area of interest", and the primary reason that you took the moderator job, but instead of new info on good/bad sportsbooks, I see more and more of your postings ending up in the "useless fluff" threads (you know - the "Have You Seen Angelle's New Tagline" type thread). There's nothing wrong with being "sociable", but when all I see is gladhanding, it appears to me that there was a lot more more "meat and potatoes" in your pre-mod postings.
-----------------------

As far as your "milestones" since you took the job, let's look at them:

1. CRIS position - Well, this was not a hard thing to decide, nor was it a time-consuming write-up. Basically, you are of the same belief as the majority of readers - StiffedByCRIS got jacked when he got his loyalty points confiscated, he deserves to be paid, and (above and beyond the loyalty points) CRIS is still a safe place to play. This thought process and write-up should have taken 25 minutes max.

2. The Bad Book Alert (Volume 1) - TheOnlineBet. This is old news and, as such, should not have taken much more than an hour to prepare the little write-up for this. Most avid readers of the Rx are all-too-familiar with their story. If you want some more 1-hour writeups, do a search on: BetMega (still kicking), ESB/Telebet, Gambler's Palace, Pro5 Sports, Skytower, Lucky Dog, Goldbetting, SimpleNetBet, Score, Sterling Sports, etc.

3. BoDog - I am very much like you, in that I look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. In this case, your findings seem logical. I would think this might have taken the better part of a day to glean the info from BoDog and compile your report.

4. New Books - I'm assuming that you had a hand in bringing on Intertops and Betworks (both excellent books, by the way). One thing I remember in your pre-mod days was how you grilled the Shrink on the Wagers Paradise situation, on how the Shrink allowed such an "unknown commodity" to be an advertiser. Well, Sportsbetting Trivia / Safedepositsports is such a commodity, and I have not heard you question the acquisition of this new unproven advertiser (then again, I think the Shrink said that the owner went to the same high school as the Shrink's buddy, or something to that effect, so I guess that makes them legit

). Actually, in all honesty, I liked the way Barry Clark handled the dispute with the credit player, and I generally like his posting style, so I hope his venture succeeds. But you get my drift ... a similar situation.
--------------------

Anyhow, in summary, you and I are on the same page on most of the stuff that I've just written about, so I can't really say that you've done anything wrong.

However, from my perspective (from the perspective of a person wanting to keep up-to-date on the good/bad sportsbooks), you haven't done very much since you took the position. I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much, but surely you must have a lot of info on books (gained from your experiences with TOP) that you can share.

Remember, this is not like a college course, where you have to spread the lectures over the whole semester - if you have the info, give it to us sooner rather than later.

[This message was edited by Halifax on June 10, 2003 at 02:55 AM.]

 

[castaway]

you are a sell out and a liar.........get over it MODERATOR! The whole friggin thing is a jooke, you, freddie, russ, ken, sting, joe, minnow, brian jeff et al...............

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Thanks Halifax, your opinion is noted. LOL. I agree by the way, don't think I have done enough either and told Ken that. As far as sportsbook information we can only answer what you want to know. I don't know all there is about off-shore but will let you know what I am familiar with if you ask. A lot of what we do is behind the scenes helping players so I don't expect to wow any of the readers on anything. I am flattered the bar was set so high though. In fact before I forget I had nothing to do with BetWorks or InterTops so don't give me any credit for that either.

Glad you agree on CRIS and BoDog, I'll start with that and build on it. Those were the two issues I was asked to bring up here again. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by castaway:
you are a sell out and a liar.........get over it MODERATOR! The whole friggin thing is a jooke, you, freddie, russ, ken, sting, joe, minnow, brian jeff et al...............<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


At least you are calling it fairly. Everyone of BOTH sites are liars and sell outs. LMAO!

 

[Railbird]

golf reveals character, someone cheats in golf they cheat in life. So I see Cris scrwewing loyalty points it will carry over down the road, guaranteed.

 

[jjgold]

LETS FACE IT AND I HAVE BEEN SAYING IT FROM DAY 1. PLAYERS/SPORSBOOKS DISPUTES ARE 98% OF THE TIME FUKKING DEGENERATE SCAMMERS LOOKING FOR A QUICK BUCK. THEY ARE A DISGRACE TO THEMSLEVES AND FELLOW BETTORS.

FUKK THEM!!!!

 

[Blacklab]

Pat,you've told me many times not to let it get to me.....even though I don't follow your advice,it is the right advice.....only gonna cause you stress,lost hair,gained weight and bad attitude.....at least you finally see the guy for who he is.....


Just focus on you capping......lol......I think this stress is affecting that as well.....stay kool buddy....talk later

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Lab - you are right. It is a lot easier to give advice than it is heed your own. I have done nothing but walk away time and again hoping for it to go away but it is clear this is going to be a regular thing. Like anyone else if you give me enough punches after a while I have had enough. For what it's worth I have dropped this issue and hope everyone else has as well. I'd always rather take the HIGH ROAD but I see now why people are goaded into things like this.

Drop me a line later, have something I want to ask you.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Halifax,

Great feedback...

Patrick,

I am very pleased with the way you are blending in over here. It's not easy to go from being one of the most popular posters, to being an employee of this site.

Posters now view you differently, as evidenced by the reactions posters gave to the thread you started across the street yesterday...

Had you not been employed here, I suspect that the responses would have been much different...

I know that your opinion of Russ has indeed changed...

For you to post what you did takes courage, because the usual suspects, beards, shills, and loyal friends always attack the messenger...

The information you provided about Russ and the horrific manner in which BlackLab was treated by him will not be forgotten, even though posters aren't calling him out on this..

Lastly, dropping it and taking the high road is to be admired...

There is so much more to do than waste time on issues that may seem petty to some...

THE SHRINK

 

[dogball]

Outstanding post Irish.
Good job Halifax as well, Irish has to settle into his position and may need a little time before the content you are looking for appears, I am sure it will.

Also, I disagree on the issue that Pat has done little since he has started, even though Pat himself agrees with you. Irish has allready bought a level of accountability and detail to the team that was missing previously. NO disrespect to anyone else, but when an issue is raised , his throughness, experience and objectivity are much needed here. I allready see a level of response by Pat that I have not noticed before. This is of supreme import, IMO.

Pat will have some growing pains, I am sure of that, he is in a difficult spot, but I know he will always try his best to balance the conflicting interests and make sure fairness is achieved.

Good luck and thanks

 

[lakerfan]

Patrick - I think you are doing a fine job moderating. And I don't even have issue with the end result in how you handled Bodog and CRIS.

My only issue which I expressed across the street and since you ask can express here, is that you have no problem taking an EXTREME position on an issue, even attacking others who differ with your position (CRIS would be an obvious example among several), only to months later completely change your thinking to a more moderate position.

The point is that your first post on a subject(no matter how strongly put or long

) should not be considered definative. It may change. Since you are a moderator now, I am guessing all of your posting will lean toward the center of an issue and the flip-flops will no longer be an issue.

You coming back to the poker game you started isn't looking as likely with all the conflict, but at least from my perspective, seat is always open. Your low suited connectors againsts Freddie's any two cards were always classic

.

All the best with the new gig.

 

[loveladys7777]

I miss Peep

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Laker - appreciate the comments. I read what you wrote across the street and admit it saddened me a little. Thought we had everything worked out from the past, guess we didn't completely. Anyway as far as what you say for the most part I agree. The thing I don't understand is my position never changed on CRIS. My role might have changed is the only thing that is different. It's hard to explain but I can't let my personal prejudices affect what I speak about. CRIS was wrong in what they did, said that consistently. However it is my opinion they are a solid out. I never said otherwise on that. The difference is no one asked me if I thought they were okay financially then, now as a moderator here people do ask me. So while even if something they did I vigorously disagree with I don't think it is right to embellish it in other areas. Loyalty points issue they failed on in my view but that does not mean they are a risky place for a new player to play at. Not sure if that made sense or not but hopefully you followed along. Here's an example. Let's pretend I didn't like Lakerfan for some reason. Even if true if someone asks me is he a good poker player than I have to say yes. These are two different issues in my mind. Maybe you are confused but I never changed anything I said about CRIS that I know of.

As far as things being definite when I post something, that goes without saying in my opinion. I feel passionaltely on things but I hope I can always be reasoned with. Things we have opinions on (all of us) will change all the time. The world is constantly evolving for all of us. I once thought Fred was a good poker player (

) but that opinion has changed. I think my posting style comes across strong at times but it doesn't mean what I say today will be what I believe 6 months from now. Maybe I should put a disclaimer on it. I am pretty open minded I guess underneath it all.


Laker - thanks for the thoughts, seriously. I want to get better and I know I need to. It's nice to get a compliment but you probably learn more when someone critiques you in a respectable way.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogball:
Outstanding post Irish.
Good job Halifax as well, Irish has to settle into his position and may need a little time before the content you are looking for appears, I am sure it will.

Also, I disagree on the issue that Pat has done little since he has started, even though Pat himself agrees with you. Irish has allready bought a level of accountability and detail to the team that was missing previously. NO disrespect to anyone else, but when an issue is raised , his throughness, experience and objectivity are much needed here. I allready see a level of response by Pat that I have not noticed before. This is of supreme import, IMO.

Pat will have some growing pains, I am sure of that, he is in a difficult spot, but I know he will always try his best to balance the conflicting interests and make sure fairness is achieved.

Good luck and thanks<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dog -

I'm going to go eat lunch after I read this one. Been a tough 24 hours. Your food digests better when you are in a good mood anyway. As long as people can see I am doing things the way I think is correct I can live with the other stuff. Talk is cheap but over time I hope it will be a common belief that McIrish and the RX treats people fairly and deals with issues honestly. Won't have it any other way.....

Thanks Dog for the comments, especially from you. The fact you and I once had a big difference of opinion and have evolved into a couple of people who respect each other and value each other's opinion proves to me much good can be done in this world. There's a saying and I don't know who said it, what lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. People tend to focus on the negative aspects of others instead of concentrating on the good stuff. In short, move on when you can and look past your differences in others. Life's too short to waste time carrying grudges. Thanks again Dog, coming from you it means a great deal to me.

 

[WalkofLife]

Pat & Dog:

There's so much love in here, I feel like crying...:::sniff:::...:::sniff:::...

In all seriousness, I do believe McIrish is one of the best additions to the Rx in our time. Among many things the guy is passionate, hot blooded and prompt to defend his position, as a good Irish man; but above all this virtues, the man is open minded, always willing to accept a constructive critic. And this is what's gonna make a difference here.

We all are aware that most of the posters here hold an ulterior motive. Some are defending books, no matter what the issue is. Some are bashing books, no matter what the circumstances are. I believe McIrish brings rationalization to the game. He should be able to provide the much needed well thought, factual-based opinions required in a forum like this one.

And despite of the potential benefits a character like McIrish can bring to the site, we need to understand there's a irreconcilable difference btween a poster and a moderator. We have seen this metamorphosis in the past, namely:

<LI>Joe, who was a great moderator
<LI>Peep, who was one of the greatest poster ever
<LI>Corso, whose passion HAS to be faded as a mod, not his caustic sense of humor though

and finally now,

<LI>Patrick McIrish.

But this change is a MUST, for a moderator MODERATES. Peep used to say the best moderator was an "invisible" one (NOTE: Pepe loved to debate, and when he didn't find anybody willing to put up the fight, he would create his own sparring matches. Funny shit).

In sum, we've lost a great poster. We've lost Patrick McIrish. But we have gained a great MOD in the make. The rest of us need to accept this as it is reality.

As a gentleman, I fail to understand why anybody would condemn McIrish for having accepting this gig. And having read every single thread about the posted issues, I must say I cannot see this "change of heart" McIrish is being accused of. There simply isn't such a "sell-out". The points of view remain the same, a bit "moderate' maybe; but in essence unaltered.

Having said that, I must confess I'm pretty much of Halifax's opinion. Nothing much has been done, but let the man grow comfortable into his position and we will surely see the rising of a new legend. Now if Mr. McIrish decides to go soft, some of us would love to rough him up a little...

Patrick: the most unfair reward for becoming a personality is ENVY, the best way to handle it is INDIFFERENCE. Be sure this is only the initial phases of greater times of opposition, but rest assure there will be people standing behind you every time

I need a brew, my brain just cramped

 

[lander]

I WILL CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT.........
As should be & is the case.

Pat, why the need for the re-assurance?
You've always been highly respected & the nay-sayers will always be cynical no matter what you/anyone does.

Let your actions speak for themeselves.

 

[Fishhead]

McIRICH comes with my personal ..............100% GUARANTEE!!

signed--FISHHEAD

 

[Sodium Pentethol V]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I WILL CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT......... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't possibly ever go wrong taking the side of the wholly correct.

You have somewhat of a history of doing that and any deviations would be dissappointing.

 

[Skyweasel]

Pat,

I think you're right on CRIS for the wrong reasons. I followed those threads carefully when they first appeared and under scrutiny, stiffedbycris' answers didn't hold up. My read of that situation was and is that he was nothing but a common (or maybe uncommon) bonus whore and I have no sympathy for him. Guys like him make it that much tougher for the rest of us.